Did you believe in a god when you were six months old? What about when you were one? Or two?
The chances are you can’t answer those questions. Yet we as adults are quick to label our children. Jewish parents won’t say “We will teach our child about Judaism, and we hope she will grow to up to accept our faith”. Instead they will say “Our baby girl is Jewish”. Catholic parents will send their child to a catholic school, before that child has had a chance to decide his theological beliefs. Christian parents will have their child christened before she has any idea what that means. For some reason we see nothing wrong with imposing a belief system on an unformed intellect.
I’m a computer programmer, but if I have a child I won’t say “he’s a computer programmer”. I don’t want to choose my child’s profession, and I certainly don’t want to choose my child’s religious beliefs. All parents influence their children in some way, and maybe a child of mine will grow up to be a computer programmer, or an atheist, or a Formula 1 fan, or a blogger. Until she is old enough to decide those things for herself, I won’t be applying any labels.
Interesting. I just had a conversation about this very subject with someone last week. I wonder what brought it up for you. The person I was talking to suggested that she thought it might be better to give the child a belief system as they grow up which they could either accept or reject when they were making their own life choices. She was thinking that when the child is exposed to no belief system at all but just this general “do as you please” scenario then as they grow up these children have a hard time figuring out which belief system to follow as adults and tend to be nothing. She submitted that having some kind of belief system as an example early on (even if they rejected it) showed kids how to have a belief system in general.
I admit I’m not sure I know what is right or wrong for anyone else. I don’t even know which is worse…to be “nothing” or to be bound by a set of rules or made to feel guilty about being a human being. I am not a parent and wouldn’t know how to begin to determine what good parenting skills would be for the rest of the world. However, it seems to me that if you taught a growing child to be a giving and conscientious member of society you basically would hit on all the main tenets that would be found in most organized religions anyway. Ten commandment type stuff.
The differences between religions appear to me to be about rituals and lifestyle more than what makes us “good” and “right” deep down inside. But I’m not a scholar on this stuff. I have a non-practicing Jewish dad, my mother’s family is Syrian Episcopalian, and I was raised as what I would term generally spiritual. I was never forced into anything religious in any direction, and I admit that it was more the basic rules on how to view myself and treat others and the feeling that we are all connected (See “I {heart icon} Huckabees” and “What the bleep do we know”) that made me what I am today. I guess I came out ok. I don’t torture animals or wallow in my own excrement…despite what Neo-Nazi Middle America would suggest.
I think the trouble with forcing a belief system on an unformed mind is that children have trouble questioning the word of ‘grown-ups’. If daddy tells his daughter she’s a Muslim, she will accept that, and in her mind it will become a fact.
I have absolutely no problem with parents influencing their children, but what daddy should say is something like “mummy and daddy are muslims, and we’ll teach you all about it, but what you believe is up to you”.
I completely agree with the rest of your comments; children should be taught basic non-denominational moral and ethical values without threatening hellfire and bloody damnation if they happen to stray from thos e values.
I have the same philosophy about vegetarianism. When I was a veggie, I vowed that I wouldn’t force my beliefs on my kid(s) and would let them decide if they wanted to be vegetarian. It should be a choice, not forced on children who are not yet capable of making this decision for themselves.
Since when is teaching a child what you believe FORCING your beliefs on them? If I believed in Jesus Christ for example (and I’m not saying I do or don’t here), and I believed that Jesus was part of the path to a good life, you’re damn skippy I’m going to teach my children about’em. NOT force, teach. This is what I have found to be beneficial, son/daughter, this is how it works and what you do.
If at some age it’s obvious it’s not for them, so be it. Teaching a chils a specific religion is not labelling them, nor is it forcing anything down their throat.
If you disagree, then I suggest not teaching them how to be polite or take risks or try to understand people, as you might label them right from the start with your forced beliefs there, too.
Do SOME parents force religion down the throats of their children? Yes, but only the ones who shouldn’t be having children anyway. Some parents force their genitalia onto them as well, and I’d rather focus on THAT than on what religion they’re being taught.
$.02
I think you missed my point Blerm. As I said, I have no problem with parents influencing their children, it’s completely natural and all parents do it. The problem I have is with the labels. We say little Billy is a Christian when he’s not old enough to make that choice. Little Billy is in a Christian family and may well be influenced by their Christian values, but he is not a Christian until he chooses to be one.
I would of course teach my offspring to be polite and take risks and try to understand people but I would not say “You are polite” or “You are a risk taker” until they become those things.
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Blerm,
Here’s how I look at it. There are two kinds of things that we teach our children:
The first are things that we teach them so they are protected from harm, and these, in general, are universally recognized as “good things”. Things like “Don’t cross a street without looking”. We teach these to children before they can deduce the validity of such behavior themselves. Personally, I would also put things like, “Be polite and treat others well” in this class, though I’m not sure they are universally recognized.
We indoctrinate children with these to protect them from immediate, and I think in this case, indoctrination is justified.
But there are another whole class of beliefs – religion only being one of them, with race and gender attitudes being very common – in which it isn’t to protect the child from harm, it’s so that they’ll believe what we believe.
It’s certainly tempting to do this with your own children, but I think it’s unfair, as such beliefs are taught before the children are able to engage in enough critical thinking to make up their own minds.
If my beliefs are rational, I should have no problem giving a rational explanation of them to my child, without resorting to things like “argument from authority”. To act as devil’s advocate, are your reasons so believing so weak that you need to indoctrinate your child rather than let them make up their own mind? Are there better arguments than “Jesus loves me, this I know, for the bible tells me so?”
Now, I understand that some religions do view a unbelieving child as being in immediate harm, but that view of harm is certainly not universal, not compared with being hit by a vehicle.
Blerm, does someone need a nap?
This is a pet peeve of mine, too. I am amused when I hear people say they are “born Catholic.” I think, Wow, that is a big decision for a little one! Kind of explains infant baptism (which neither my Baptist denomination nor I believe in.)
My wife and I will of course try to shape our children in our own image as best we can, on both religious and non-religious matters.
I admire your thinking and have thought about the subject quite often. As a child I was sent to yeshiva, mainly because my parents wanted me to learn about judaism. There were periods in my life where I was quite religious, often keeping the sabbath as well. Now, as an adult, I question much of what I have learned and my belief in a god that rewards and punishes is diminished (severely). But, here’s the problem. I am now a parent myself, and so, even though I am not currently religious I cannot deny that religion has taught me basic human values which have helped me in other areas of my life. Values which I still carry (ie. be nice to people, kind. do not cheat on your spouce etc.) and would like to pass on to my child.
now, As a parent I would still like to instill these values in my child and still believe that some religion is better than none. How can one who believes in religion, and PRACTICES some religion, however minute, NOT influence a young child. Where am I to practice my religion if not at my home?
Children emmulate parents and I think that, just by the fact that I as a parent will practice some religion, this will influence my children regardless of what I say!
Most religions teach basic moral values, but those values can be taught just as easily without reference to any organised religion or “absolute morality”.
Having said that, you are correct that children will emulate their parents to a certain degree (although some research suggests that they emulate their peers more). I have no problem with that. Your child (congratulations on the new arrival!) may well emulate your religious practices, or your professional practices, and I’m sure you’ll be very proud if she does; until she does though, she’s not a jew, or a doctor.
What a load of bull…why is it only religion that people want other people to leave to their children to decide?…why aren’t you all advocating whether or not your children will try murder, drugs (hard) and say ‘well Johnny did you decide whether it is bad or not?’
life is full of influences….I am a Roman Catholic.. not evangelical … but yes I have raised my beloved children to be the same…and I am pleased to say that they question everything, they have never ever been forced to think anything, I have always talked to them about ever aspect of ‘our’ religion…
why is it always people with no religion that constantly want to take it away from others?
what works for you works! what works for ‘us’ works.
My children have been raised to think of others , always, never to place their needs before others feelings.
Maybe more of you secular people should have some of this in your lives. maybe society would not now be the uncaring , selfish , throwaway place it is?